I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. He said it makes sense that the word "sin" would appear multiple times in a Biblical discussion of homosexuality. Connect With Us! Hey Sam you may be interested in how Jews interpret the Mashiach (messiah) passages. Bob, I loved your comment. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. Oops, last comment of mine was supposed to link to this comment. Maybe six months from now, there'll be another terrible story, and we'll know that they BS'd us. LOL! Just volunteers. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. Not me, not you, and definitely not Mark Driscoll. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. If, as a teacher, you realise that you hate students, you must give up your job and find something else. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. But the attempt was cut short Sunday when Hillsong, one of the most influential international megachurches, cut him from the speaker list at its upcoming conferences in the United Kingdom and in Australia. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. I would hope we should higher standards than that. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. Internet users are also shielded from much of GW reality. it sounds like you have a story of sorts. Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. It was like my eyes were open. After describing the crucifixion of Jesus, Mark Driscoll asks: Who has attacked you? He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they havent asked for forgiveness? That would be terrible. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. I doubt he walked away broke. there is a scripture somewhere that says i wont speak against Gods annointed, which was david re saul i believe, and people have used this (or churches have used this to keep people quiet) as a reason to never say anything about church abuse. I also told him that before I wrote this story, I transcribed his sermon. 6100 N 19th St Ozark, MO 65721 Directions. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. some have suffered unjustly. I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. How do you see this as someone looking in? While a decreasing quota meant less pay. "Nor is it outside the parameters of a gospel ministry. Lydia wrote: With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. I want to know how I was deceived. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? The pews were uncomfortable. They didnt fail. From my perspective, the problem with Driscolls repentance is the same as the problem with the Chandler apology. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. And later did sort of brag about how beneficial it was to him in his spiritual life. So Brian Houston lied and succeeded in ending the protests and the media scrutiny temporarily. For more information about James River Church and to get connected, click the link below! But it would be encouraging if they did. Hillsong is an international megachurch based in Australia that has exported its influence to major global cities and into churches music across the United States. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. a couple months ago a young under legal age man near where i live went to a party and drove home with other kids in the car and wrecked. Has he asked them to forgive him? If you become used to a certain standard of living, that does not mean you are entitled to that standard of living. MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. I dont equate it with forgiveness at all. After surrendering more than 10% of your gross income for years you are tens of thousands of dollars into them at that point and that can really bolster all the cognitive dissonance you feel and strangely work to prevent your leaving. we see this in culture and politics all the time. And there were no acrobats, flying drummers, or the need to check out the latest cosmetic procedure on the head worship pastor there. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. He genuinely seemed to care. He was engaging, funny and gracious. Thank you. one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). Dont forget his church plant was asked to leave my kids school at the time. They just want to give us a little more time and "context" to receive the brilliance. This pastor was humble! They are described as brilliant. Lindell's sermon is further entwined with politics because he mentions Springfield Mayor Bob Stephens. Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. I had never heard someone talk like that. I asked the mayor, specifically, how he will vote on the matter April 7. I believe that.' It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. . elisabeth seton wrote: You make an interesting comparison. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. Its much harder to leave that way. Missouri church service Saturday evening. But I am surprised he delivered his message from on high the pulpit. Its just too lucrative of a franchise, you dont want to lose that. I am a current attender who was raised by people who love this church but I definitely have my confusions on a few things. Newer ones have theater seating or individual chairs. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? He should not be making a buck off Jesus in any way, shape, or form, IMO. We need to be just absolutely rigorously adherent to things that we know work. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. Additionally, Jonna Petry (who started the blog Joyful Exiles) was shunned along with the Petry children. )(mark is apparently not impressed with peter baptizing 3,000 followers in one day cause peter isnt able to be made into a complementarian I guess), interestingly mark points out how stephen handled it but not how mark handled slight persecution which was actually not persecution but truth leveled against him) When and where did this start? I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. OZARK, Mo. And probably they wont. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. Im all for forgiveness but this complete whitewash of history when someone offers up an opportunistic Im sorry is not something I see in day to day life. Bummer. So Mars Hillweve done this in the pastyou probably dont know thissome years ago you all purchased a large piece of land in India that now has on orphanage with 100 kids on it and you purchased the land. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. It is an issue of protecting other people. Its much harder to leave that way. The hyper romanticized cinematic version of the uber cool Che trumps the reality of his bloody terrorist tactics and the horrors and oppression that his brand of communism inflicted on others. stephen is suffering for doing right. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. Just show-biz. Mark begins to describe what happened with Stephen in Acts 6:8-15. He lives in the Show Me State, so go ahead and show me. Prayer Requests Ditto Bent Meyer who opposed the consolidation of powerful. @ Nancy: He was an abusing thug. I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. There is a distinct period of time that must pass before you can really objectively address the damage that that place does. We have been led by God to support another ministry. Almost all of them pointed to Gods leading. It certainly looked like they had been coached on what to say. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. During those early years they had a great impact on hurting people and a great testimony of the work of the Lord in a group of people dedicated to doing whatever He led them to do. Look all those happy people; this must be a great place! @ Bob M: THANK YOU! -Katelyn The reason why I answered like that is because most of this stuff goes on because the pew sitters are not actively involved in the church operatons and are not demanding openess and transparancy of staff and leaders. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. . Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. Its a measure of arrogance, tweeted retired attorney and flight instructor Jeanne Mann on Sunday with a photo from the gathering. "Our desire for things God has forbidden is a reflection of how sin has distorted us, rather than a reflection of how Christ has made us.". However, some of his employees and family were taken in by SBTS and seem to be doing ok. IMO, the church as a whole can help to regulate these things by exposing them and explaining how they do not reflect Christ at all. especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. Im sure someone wittier than I can do something with his Training ourselves to sense right from wrong. what is a person supposed to do? Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? Penalty Flag? Forgive him? The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. The first time, it was shocking. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. Whatever is going through Marks head, he is bent on getting people to listen to him again and to be heard. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. And Lindell knows none of that is because of him. I'm in on that. Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. Mark Driscoll should not be a preacher ever again. I mean this only works in some venues. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. Click below for times and locations: Learn More Stronger Men's Bible Study 6am on Tuesdays | March 7th - April 11th, 2023 | All Campuses i found it impossible to take advantage of people, i found that if i hurt someone even unententionally i couldnt sleep until i made it right. ++++++++++++++++++. I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious. An online petition calling for Mr Driscoll to be removed from Hillsong's conferences had attracted more than 3000 signatures prior toMr Houston's statement. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. *carefully targeting pastors who want to build an empire of their own with an easy publicity stunt (although described Christian-like so it actually sounds noble, in both marketing and in the buying pastors self-talk), @ LT: Of course BHouston can know about MDs statements in the past 5 minutes of Googling will turn up Wenatchee The Hatchets meticulous documentation, screenshots and all, and Warren Throckmortons extensive documentation, the mp3 of the infamous sermon in Scotland, etc pp. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? Youll see they have no standards regarding truth, salt of light. Pun intended. It was really bad, disastrous I might even say. I do hope he finds wholeness. I hope you found some of the above helpful. Those ones arent even on the path. saul walks onto the stage of history. no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books, Theyre having new revelations from heaven haha i mean from the internet blogs that they cant escape. Three women have now blown the whistle on a program operated by the Ministry, including allegations they entered as independent people, however came out of the program as broken and suicidal. How can they do that? Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. The US pastor, who has courtedcontroversy for what has been dubbed his "more-macho-than-thou" brand of Christianity, resigned from his Seattle megachurch in October after being found "guilty of pride" as well as abusive, controlling and manipulative behaviour. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. Why dont Driscoll and the boyz just get it over with and rename their religion Paulianity? Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. The financial aspects. Im not invested in liking or disliking Che so I truly welcome your comments. James River Church Reverend John E Lindell. Youre not one of us. your comments are great. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. Was that MDs evil twin Dark Miscoll who said elders who disagree with him need to be put in wood chippers or that women need to bring their men to Jesus by orally servicing them every morning whether they like it or not? Rejection by churches or others in christian authority has actually resulted in the Lord comforting and building me up (in spite of my flaws) instead of causing me to doubt my salvation, He has used these things to show me how much He loves me, personally. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. I cannot respect or support these men knowing that they revere such a man as a pastor. "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? In February 2008, less than two months after his promise not to abandon our orphans, we received a letter from Scott Thomas. Active homosexuals will not make it into heaven, Lindell said in the sermon. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. But with those reading glasses they are losing their hipness and relevance and megas feed off of young marrieds with children.