Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Do you have any information on them? Beuret Frres is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Pinterest I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. and an eagles head. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Bovy Thodore Joseph % R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Very helpfull once again. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Cap Joseph Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? Baker, David J. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. 1840-1860. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Misc. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Bernard Lambert Search. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums OldGuns Newsletter . are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. These might cursive as well. HI, John. Sorry! Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . this book online and pay it through Paypal. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Colot Double Take: Gorgeous Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns - Field & Stream By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. . After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Where did you find the Falla mark? interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Closset Louis It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? A "Greener" double? Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Bultot Jean Thanks. Comblain U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. or E.C. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . this location now so you can return often. Designates rifled barrel. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. Tel: 01707 709372; Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum Counet-Leboulle J. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Arendt Maurice Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Bazin F.J. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Dallas, Donald. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Bernimolin & Cap Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. It was mandatory post-1924. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. location, rather than a manufacturer. Quick Facts Belgian Liege gunmakers Boden Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM Rifles & Musket Information. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Comblain - Dorther Hubert Paypal, Order I can send pictures of it. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. There's no indication of gauge. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Colleye Henri Joseph Christophe Louis Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Counet Philippe acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Marlin-Savage-Winchester Or any info? The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown.